We consume different kind of food everyday. We will always choose food that we think will benefit our health. However, some combination of food may bring some adverse effects to us.
My students have done some surveys and research on those combination of food which believed to bring adverse effects. Whether it is true or not, let's look at their finding on some combination of food (as shown in the column on right hand side).
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My name is fendy yuanto, i want to comment at Au Yik Foong's blog about persimmons and crab.
ReplyDeleteat the preparation steps number 2, it was said that cold crab should be eaten with drinking wine to warm the stomach and eliminate cold. i want to ask, what kind of wine we can use?? can we change the wine into hot tea or coffee??
and preparation steps number 5, crabs should be dipped in ginger vinegar before eating to kill the bacteria. is it true?? i never dipped crabs into ginger vinegar before but i'm fine. ^^
To Henry group,
ReplyDeleteCan you further elaborate why the protein complex can cause toxicity?
To Chin Yee,
ReplyDeleteCannot find comment in ur blog. Good job, i like the video!
To Mei Ling et al.,
ReplyDeleteCould you define what is food poisoning in ur context? and how the combination of food cause this,,? need ur clarification.
Thank :)
To Wei Ling,
ReplyDeleteCould you clarify what do you mean by "can cause gastric hemorrhage or gastric ulcer"?
To Vivian,
ReplyDeleteI have some doubts on this:
The Nine Basic Rules of Proper Food Combining
How realistic are those statements?
To Dhawani,
ReplyDeletePls add references in your text :P
To Alson,
ReplyDeleteCan you do something on the contrast of ur blog and text
From penny to Maya,
ReplyDeletei never know that durian and tapai combination could cause unconsciousness..but is this effect accute??it develops right after we comsume this food combination?or is it a chronic effect which only develop after some years if we kept consuming this food combination?
From,
pei nee
June 30, 2009 5:28 AM
To Fendy
ReplyDeletethanks for commeting on our research of crab and persions food combination. the 'cold' crab in the text is actually talking about the internal coldness our body produce which refers to the heat energy generated through all our organ systems from the food -- the fuel -- that we eat and that our digestive system burns according to the traditinal chinese medicine (TCM).Crab produces a characteristic internal coldness, while ginger vinegar and wime generate internal heat. If we eat too many cooling foods, we increase the chance that our condition will become too cold. If it does, we might come down with a "cold" illness with symptoms such as Severe aversion to cold, low-grade fever, no sweating, headache, muscle aches, stuffy nose, cough with clear white phlegm. The way to help correct the underlying imbalance that brought on that condition is to eat more warming foods such as wine and ginger vinegar. for more details you can check on: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0NAH/is_n1_v27/ai_20152683/?tag=content;col1
To junyip,
ReplyDeleteCrab-and-Pomegranate..
although Pomegranate contain high amount of tannic acid which cannot eat with crab. but there are still some food recipe that combined this two food(Crab-and-Pomegranate Appetizer)
http://find.myrecipes.com/recipes/recipefinder.dyn?action=displayRecipe&recipe_id=225547
Can we conclude that the pomegranate actually can eat with crab...it contain high amount of tannin acid. this combination of food intake will effect our body depend on different body different metabolism???
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTo Jia Xin
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment on my research of pomegranate and crab. Your point is very good, you mention about different body have different metabolic rate. It is true, for example a group of friend is eating at mamak stall and are eating same food. When you go back home, you are having diarrhea but your other friend didn't. Different metabolic rate on that particular person result in different ability on digestive system. For me, i eat alot still cannot gain weight and it is due to my body metabolic rate is higher than normal people.
On the other hand, the amount of pomegranate that you eat will cause different degree of indigestion on your stomach during combining with crab. Small amount of pomegranate that you eat with crab might not cause diarrhea but will slower down your digestion and cause indigestion. However, if you consume high amount of pomegranate with crab together, then your risk of getting diarrhea is higher.
Hopes this will help^^
From voon pei to maya..
ReplyDeleteI just know what is tapai recently, when did the food micro experiment. But never try yet, so interesting on this topic. You mention that sulfur compound in durian will combined with ethanol in tapai and gives disulfram-ethannol compound.can i know that how it can cause abdominal pain? And i remember that you had this experiment before,can i know what is the amount you ate to cause this effect? This combination seem similiar as the combination of alcohol with durian, right?
Hi Maya,
ReplyDeleteI am interested to know too... :)
For Ban Tin group,
ReplyDeleteBased on what reason your group said that taking oyster together with milk can dismished calcium absorption? Because what I know, calcium absorption only decrease bcause vitamin D and PTH, and also phytate, fiber, and oxalates which can easily found in plant base food.
For Wei Ling group,
How fermentation can be occured in stomach? As I know, fermentation happen in anaerobic condition and the product is acid. If fermentation happen in stomach, it means that stomach is under anaerobic. Is it true?
pH stomach acid is around 1-2 therefore to increase the acid condition, we need lower pH (<1). Is it possible the acid from stomach fermentation produce acid lover than 1?
To Wei Ling group,
ReplyDeleteAccording to your group, sweet potato contain dietary fiber which will delay the stomach digestion and cause fermentation occur in stomach. Does it also means that any carbohydrate consume with fiber will lead to fermentation in stomach? because fiber will delay the contact of food such as carbohydrate with digestive enzyme. Can the fermentation occur due to the delay of carbohydrate digestion?
To Henry's group...
ReplyDeleteI really liked the picture of the grapes and wine in Khai Khee's Blog.
In the part- 'How does the materials formed from tannins and protein?', what does HT and PA mean? it just kinda appeared from nowhere without any description of what it represents. this section is also slightly hard to understand with all the very scientific and complicated terms (from the point of view of a science student). imagine if a lay man reads the blog, i dun think he can understand what u are trying to say....
Since the tannins combine with the proteins in crab and make the proteins indigestible, does it mean that it also applies to all protein rich food such as fish, beef, lamb, etc? if so... then it means that the classic dining practice of having wine with steak (in high class restaurants) will also cause stomach pain, nausea and vomiting... but this is not so. i myself have had wine with protein rich food but have never had any problems. pls comment.
To Alice,
ReplyDeleteHT=Hydrolysable tannin
PA=proanthocyanidins tannin, also called as condensed tannin.
Actually, the binding of protein and tannin is based on the protein and tannin structure and characteristic. Protein have a larger molecular size will form a stronger the bonds with tannin. Same goes to tannin, the higher the molecular weight, the stronger it will bond with protein. Since different protein rich food has different protein structure and composition, it will not show the effect as the crabs do.
To Chin Yee:
ReplyDeletey many people said that crabs are high in cholesterol level..and u claimed that it can reduce TAG??..is there any mechanism behind??
And, as we all know, grape is an ultimate source of antioxidant especially seeds wor...then tannic acid from its skin sounds so terrible..izzit tannic acid from the wine or tannic acid from the grapes itself??
~thx~
hi all,
ReplyDeleteAfter the assignment, i realized that a lot of food that contain tannic acid. for example the grapes, pomegranates, persimmons, berries, nuts, tea, coffee and even beer and wine.
I doubt the amount of tannic acid in the food that will able to cause food aversion with combination with other food. although, it is true that tannic acid when combined with other food might cause effect on the body. but how much in amount?
If experiment were to be conducted, 1 ml of tannic acid might kill the mice, but it might not have any effect towards human.
If life is all about restriction in food, then life is missing its meaning.
thx all, good day
Dr.Wong,I commented in their own blog. So that is it ok?
ReplyDeleteTo Chin Yee,
ReplyDeleteIt is ok to have carbohydrate with fiber, depends on the combination. In general, it is not advised to have complex carb and simple carb(sweet fruits) together. Persimmon and sweet potato is only one of the examples. The combination of simple sugar and complex carb will cause the fruits to be held in stomach for a longer time as fiber find with simple carb and minimize its contact with digesty enzyme. For fermentation, may occur if carb digestion is delayed so it is advised to consume fruits one hour after meals.
To Meitta,
Fermentation can occur in the stomach. This is because as the GI tract go further, it eventually change from aerobic to anaerobic condition, which enable microbes ( commonly yeast) to ferment the remaining foods that are not hydrolyted by digestion enzymes in stomach. Fermentation produces a lot of gases and acids that give you burning sensation and discomfort. However, i am not quite sure to what extend the acids produced from fermentation can lower the pH of stomach.
To Weylim,
Inner lining of stomach can be weakened by excessive acids production. When that happens repeatedly, it may give rise to inflamming of lining of stomach. One of the factor that leads to hyper acidity in stomach is fermentation in stomach. In my opinion, combination of sweet potato and persimmon may not be the main factor that leads to gastric ulcer but it further promotes gastric ulcer if one likes to take pungent,sour foods, alcoholic beverage, coffee, tea, carbonated drinks and so on.
ref : http://smokh.org/pages_good_health/Acids_acidity.html
http://www.preretirementlife.com/articles/ThePower-of-Enzymes-For-Better-Digestion-252.cfm
http://www.tandurust.com/online-health-tips/stomach-acidity-natural-remedies.html
To meita,
You stated that choc and soda drinks contain high level of sugar, caffein and food additive. May i know what kind of food additives are found in this ombination of foods that are related to hyperactivity?
To Alice,
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point here.. what is the effect with other protein source of food.. any one can further comment.
To Jia Huan,
How "One of the factor that leads to hyper acidity in stomach is fermentation in stomach" why this combination of food can promote acid production???
To Pei Nee,
I think the 'cold' concept from chinese traditional point of view should be omitted for the mean time. It can not be justify from the point of view of science :)
To Ban Tin,
ReplyDeletecrabs are high in cholesterol but low in saturated fat. the omega 3 in the crabs can reduce the blood pressure and TAG, but not in the case of consuming large amount of crabs. however, high intake of omega 3 also will cause negative effect to our body, such as increase of LDL cholesterol level, effect the immune sytem, etc. Cholesterol is used in our body to produce hormone and bile, but consume high amount of cholesterol will actually increase the risk of getting heart disease. We are not saying that the crab can effectively reduce the TAG or blood pressure. If a person consuming high amount of saturated fatty acid, it will also rise the TAG and cholesterol level in the blood. Crabs are high in cholesterol, but some how they are low in saturated fat.
The tannin acid in wine is from the grapes, especially grapes wine may contain higher amount of tannin acid. Some of the tannin acid in the wine also from the barrel(oak wood) used to aged the wine. Different types of wine contain different amount of tannin acid. In red wine, the skin of the grapes are not taken off to give a red colour to the wine. The skin actually contain higher amount of tannin acid. In other types of fruit wine, may contain lower amount of tannin acid which may not cause food aversion when combine with other food.
I agree with what zu yuan said, that if life is all about restriction in food, then life is missing its meaning.
Hope this answer your question. Thanks for the comment.
To Wey Lim,
ReplyDeleteNow we will elaborate that why the protein complex can cause toxicity. Digestive enzymes (peptones and proteases) cannot readily break down coagulated protein molecules once they fuse together. The indigestible and coagulated protein molecules tend to putrefy as bacteria in the body feed upon this dead organic matter. Bacterial enzymatic by-products are highly toxicity and carcinogenic. Food eaten beyond digestive capacity causes bacterial fermentation, putrefaction and rancidity, which will adding up to a grand case of upset stomach, diarrhea and vomiting as well. Therefore, indigestible protein complex can cause toxicity.
References:
- Proteins Coagulate: http://www.rawfoodhowto.com/raw-fresh-produce-vs-cooked.cfm
- How An Unnatural Diet Causes Diseases: http://www.selfhealingempowerment.com/articles/unnatural_eq_disease.html
From,
Henry’s group.
To Penny’s group,
Your group has suggested that crab should be eaten with drinking wine to warm the stomach and eliminate the cold, to disinfect and eliminate the poison. But, as we know wine is highly contains tannic acid. Therefore, it may cause toxicity or abdominal discomfort if we eat crab with drinking wine which has a different theoretical point as you said. May I know more about how drinking wine can disinfect and eliminate the poison?
Thanks.
to voon pei,
ReplyDeletesorry that we are reply your question so late.
Actually disulfiram-ethanol reaction (DER)occur 10 to 20 minutes even you intake small amount of alcohol. tapai is a fermentation food which will consist of alcohol...Under normal metabolism, alcohol is broken down in the liver by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase to acetaldehyde, which is then converted by the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase to the harmless acetic acid. Disulfiram blocks this reaction at the intermediate stage by blocking the enzyme acetaldehyde dehydrogenase. After alcohol intake under the influence of disulfiram, the concentration of acetaldehyde in the blood may be 5 to 10 times higher than that found during metabolism of the same amount of alcohol alone.
disulfiram toxicity due to Rotten-egg odor on breath (sulfide metabolites)
The total daily dosage of disulfiram should not exceed 500 mg.
Thanks....^^
to zihui group,
ReplyDeletecombination of oyster and dairy product.
After view your blog, then i realise that oyster cannot eat with dairy product.
Oyster contain vitamin B12 which will lead to folate deficiency. I believe it is correct.
And i found something interesting, which is @Low levels of folate and vitamin B12 may linked with depression@....so, if oyster contain high level vit B12, after we eat it, really will decrease our depression feel?
nice day...
"Food poisoning is a common, usually mild but sometimes deadly illness. Typical symptoms include nausea, vomiting diarrhea that occur suddenly (within 48hours) after consuming a contaminated food or drink. Depending on the contaminant, fever and chills, bloody stools, dehydration and nervous system damage may follow."
ReplyDeleteAccording to the myth it will lead to food poisoning which we disagree.
In actual, oyster contains vitamin B12 and dairy products contains B12 and folate. When taken together it will lead to B12 toxicity which is uncommon, it is possibleto develop side effects while taking the vitamin. Potential side effect include diarrhea, blood clots in the legs, sign of allergic such as hives or rash, itching, swelling on the lips, mouth or throat, wheezing or difficulty in breathing. Excessive amount of folate intake can trigger the same kinds of nervous system related symptoms that is ordinarily used to prevent these symptoms such as insomia, malaise, irritability and intestinal dysfunction. Excessive amount of folic acid can hide vitamin B12 deficiency, by masking blood related symptoms
Other than that, oyster and dairy products contain high levels of zinc, which will lead to zinc toxicity. Because of zinc toxicity, it leads to a domino effect of calcium and magnesium. Divalent cations, along with other minerals, can compete with calcium for intestinal absorption. For example, magnesium and calcium, both divalent cations, compete with each other for intestinal absorption whenever an excess of either is present in the gastrointestinal tract. Calcium absorption from low calcium diets that include supplements of zinc which is another divalent cations also may be impaired.
To Penny:
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your bad combinations, i may disagree with the banana and milk combination, you do not get synus congestion or alergies due to the combination, its more to do with the milk or banana alone,(more with milk) my family has been having that combination since generations and theres no effect like that ever noticed.
DHWANI HARIA
To Wey Lim,
ReplyDeleteAbout the 9 basic rules of proper food combining, it's basically a general suggestion supported by some of the theories on the "myth/truth of food combination". Take the 4th rule as an example, protein & acid food (crab and pomegranate)as proposed by my group/ the 7th rule starchy food & sugars ( sweet potato and persimmon ) as proposed by Jia Huan, Siew Fong and Vivienne's group. Well, like what I've stated on my blog, it's not entirely fair for us to justify these as truths. I wouldn't say that these 9 basic rules are 100% true. However, we can still take them as home remedies/suggestions which oftentimes serve for precaution purposes. :)
To Maya,
"is there any cases been reported about these 2 combination of foods?.."
Basically, I've not found any reported cases on the net. This particular "bad combination" is proposed according to the theory of the combination of pomegranate -acidic food (tannic acid) and crab - protein food (protein). This combination is said to burden the digestive system. Same goes to combination of crab and persimmon/grapes/etc, where the same theory can be applied. :)
To Siew Fong,
"How is leucorrhea?"
Leucorrhea, also known as leukorrhea is a medical jargon for a certain type of vaginal discharge. Precisely, it's a white, thick vaginal discharge commonly caused by estrogen imbalance and it is usually associated with pregnancy (during/after). Some other causes of leucorrhea are : STD, vaginal infection, etc. :)
To Meitta,
ReplyDeleteCalcium absorption can be diminished by high level of zinc which are contained by both oyster and milk. However, please take note that this will only happen when there is a large comsumption of it and also when the calcium intake in body is low. When the calcium intake is at adequate levels, the calcium absorption will not be affected by zinc.
To Jia Xin,
Thanks for reading our blogs. Yea.. it is true that low folate and vitamin B12 intake leads to depression. Studies have found out that patients that were given adequate amount of folate and vitamin B12 do respond better to the antidepression treatment. So, based on my perception, i do agree that oysters, which are high in vitamin B12 and folate can helps in alleviating symtoms of depression. However, to what degree that oysters help, we do not know. Vitamin B12 can actually manufacture a substance called monoamines which helps in treating depression.
Hey Penny, you stated "spinach and orange" under healthy food combination. Isn't spinach a good source of protein?? and orange is categorized under acid food. So I was just wondering if it's gonna have any effects like the combination of crab and persimmon where combination of protein and acid take place, although orange does not contain any tannins as far as I know. :)
ReplyDeleteThanks!
To chocolate and soft drinks combination team,
ReplyDeleteWell, i find it interesting to know that high refined sugar can actually affects a child behaviour. However, i still find some website saying that sugar does not contribute to the hyperactivity of children which kinda confused me. On the other hand, i do agree with the fact that caffeine can caused increase heart rate as i personally experienced it. Regarding the food additives, i think the issues are still controversial. No matter what, we can not rule out the possibility that it can leads to hyperactivity.
to Jia huan,
ReplyDeletetheres a paragraph in your blog that i don't understand, its the paraghraph before the picture of the digestive system, it says something about the digestion of starch, do you mean if the salivary amulase is not present in the mouth then the starch will not be broken down in the mouth but go straight into the interstines via the stomach for further breakdown? is it posible for a person to have all the 3 areas in the mouth where salivary amulase is produced to stop functioning? as its role is to convert some of starch to maltose in the mouth.
dhwani
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFor Jia Huan…
ReplyDeleteThanq for answering my Q about fermentation in stomach.
Actually the research for link between food addictive and hyperactivity is quite new, in 2007. Before that, Benjamin Feingold, M.D also tried to figure out this problem. He found that the correlation but only little evidence has been generated to support this hypothesis. In 2007, McCann et al. built a research to ensure Benjamin Feingold’s hypothesis. In this research, they used 2 mixed of food addictive with different amount and different type. The mix A included 20 mg of artificial food colourings; 5 mg sunset yellow, 2.5 mg carmoisine, 7.5 mg tartrazine, and 5 mg ponceau 4R and 45 mg of sodium benzoate. The mix B included 30 mg of artificial food colourings; 7.5 mg sunset yellow, 7.5 mg carmoisine, 7.5 mg quinoline yellow, and 7.5 mg allura red AC and 45 mg of sodium benzoate. The result was very complex. Until now, they haven’t give detail about wat exactly the food addictive that may cause hyperactive, but they suspect the sodium benzoate. ONCE MORE I state, the researcher havnt found the TYPE of food addictive that cause hyperactivity.
For Zi Hui…
Thank you for ur Q. Thnq for reminding that sugar does not contribute to the hyperactivity of children. Please bear in mind that sugar alone didn’t cause hyperactive. Our group talks more about component in CHOCOLATE AND SODA DRINK that may cause hyperactive. There was researcher that measuring the secretion of cortisol and calmness as response of high sugar. Some fasted participants were given a glucose solution, protein, fat, or water prior to experiencing experimentally-induced social stress. They pointed out that cortisol levels were significantly higher in participants who consumed glucose relative to the other dietary conditions and the CALMNESS WAS DECREASED.
For the food addictive question, I answer it together with Jia Huan Q. It’s new research, the scientist havnt known about what food addictive that may cause hyperactive but they’re sure type of food addictive that cause hyperactive. I didn’t simply role out that food addictive that cause hyperactive. I also use a journal so I think it’s quite accurate and believable.
Reference
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_account/hyperactivity_and_sodium_benzoate
http://www.myomancy.com/2007/09/food-colorings-and-hyperactivity
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1659835,00.html
Video of Proof Food Addictives Linked To Hyperactivity In Children. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVVtTY8nIU4.
McCann, D., Barrett, A., Cooper, A., Crumpler, D., Dalen, L., Grimshaw, K., Kitchin, E., Lok, K., Porteous, L., Prince, E., Barke, E.S., Warner, J.O., & Stevenson, J., 2007. Food additives and hyperactive behaviour in 3-year-old and 8/9-year-old children in the community: A randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial. Volume 370, Issue 9598, 3 November 2007-9 November 2007, Pages 1560-1567
Thnq,
Meitta
To Maya,
ReplyDeletei know that the combination of tapai and durian has a similar theory with alcohol and durian.
But tapai just contain a few of alcohol.How many of the atcual amount of tapai combine with durian will give adverse effect.
I also know that most of the fruits are suggested eaten alone. This should not be eaten with other food.
For jiahuan,
Food additive is sodium benzoate which can cause hyperactive to children. Until now, the researches just know food additive can cause hyperactivity to children through their experiment. But, they still researched about how the food additive cause hyperactivity.
For Sodium benzoate, it can damaged the cell. Benzoate can cause "substantial damage" to mitochondrial, which will consume most of the oxygen we breathe into body for generating ATP (energy).
ATP represents the usable currency form of enegry for most of the chemical reactions of our cells. A very tiny amount of oxygen form the potentially dangerous and highly reactive forms of oxygen (oxygen radicals). It will damage our cell.
To Wey Lim,
ReplyDeleteSweet potato is starchy food which means rich in fiber while persimmon is sweet fruits. Sweet potato will delay stomach digestion when persimmon and sweet potato is intake together and reach the stomach. For a long period then fermentation will occurs. The bacteria will turn the food into alcohol and acetic acid which promote acid production during the process of fermentation.
To all,
ReplyDeleteI can see now you are getting mature to analyze and handling problems although some of your facts are not supported 'scientific' experiments. Always remember, think out of the box and see things from different direction :)
To k.Khee,
For you to take note, not all side products from bacteria are toxic.